Linguistic Kicking Against the Goads

Do you think there's a correlation between Canada and France both sucking? One of the things that irritated me when I was in Canada was that they had French terms for silly things, like they called napkins "serviettes". What's that all about? Of course, they like to claim their British heritage too and do so by calling things "Royal". For example, here in America, we have paper plates called "Chinette." In Canada, it's "Royal Chinette" (like that's what the Queen eats off of or something).

If a country wants to maintain a certain status of their language, what's it to you? If they have stated a certain notion of linguistic consistence as a good, then it would be immoral for them not to do it. Just because someone isn't a good ol' boy American and you can't understand them doesn't mean they're stupid. And it's stupid and irresponsible for you to be so flippant about what somebody else finds valuable.

(I'm talking to Josiah, there, not to you Christin...I didn't see your comment, b/c I think we posted at the same time.)

If somebody wants to think that another country officially regulating their language for protection from foregin linguistic invaders is stupid, what's it to you?

I do think there is a strong connection between Canada and France, at least in both of their respective "annoyance" and "loathability" qualities. Canada does have Quebec, which speaks French, and while most Canadians do not suffer from the insufferable French snootiness & arrogance (I like to call it the Napolean complex gone national), Quebec does.

I'd like to think though that I can understand a bit of the French ethos. I've read Derrida, Roussea, and Voltaire. Their stuff's about chicks, right?

France has no soul. Loving France in an institutional sense is one "educated" step up from being a fan of the Lifetime channel.

Now Italy & Ireland. Those are two countries with some moxy and character.

I think we're all missing the real irony here, which is that the term "courelle" wasn't invented in France. It was invented in Quebec. And now the French are mandating this foreign term to protect their national heritage. Which, whether you like the French or not, is kinda dumb. Next thing you know, the French will make O Canada their national anthem.

Well, I misspelled "courriel," suggesting that I am in no position to call anyone else dumb. :)

France has no SOUL!!?!?!?! Based on your perceptions of Derrida, Rousseau, and Voltaire!!!??? (What about Foucault and Proust? Debussy? Saint-Saens? Milhaud?) Because you have particular taste defined as "soul", and France doesn't meet it, doesn't mean it doesn't have soul. Have you ever lived in France? Had a glimpse of the world through French eyes?? Have you ever been to Italy or Ireland for that matter?

I think you've also gotta dig the American brand of doing English, which is like a melting pot of language. We absorb anything and everything linguistically speaking. This may tick off Tolkien and his, uh, erudite fans, but he was a better story teller than linguist anyway.

I guess I'm just American in that I respect having a language that adapts.

Being smarmy isn't having soul (i.e. France).

Irish and Italians both have soul because they dig people, and dig their cultural insitutions in light of their love of people and a good time. Italy has a history of art, music, and philosophy just as rich as France, and yet does it without being pricks. Ireland has an incredible folk-art and folk-music tradition to rival any country, and again, they do it without being pricks about it.

I've been to Ireland, and have yet to make it to Italy. But dangit, its on my list.

Sure, the French have what they consider to be great art, philosophy, music, and food. But pound for pound, Italy and Ireland have it just as good, without being jerks about it.

Hence why France is stupid. They maintain their institutions for their institutions sake.

Italy got all their art and music from France/France-speaking areas in the 15 th c. They hired all French musicians, tutors, etc. I guess you could say that Italian art is really French. The French love people and culture. They love food. They have a rich cultural tradition. I found Italy trashy after living in France. And the Italians were bigger jerks than the French.

Do you have any French in you? Would you like to?

Jeanette, you probably only found the Italians jerks because either

a. the men hit on you (you should have taken it as a compliment)
and
b. Europe isn't as culturally developed to be able to handle women with strong, American personalities.

That's perhaps true about Italian art. But what about Italian theology and philosophy? The French just ganked that from the Italians.

And you're missing my point. The French are jerks because they maintain their institutions for their institutions sake, and not for the sake of people (like Italy and Ireland).

Perhaps a reference to contemporary English culture, which is laregly defined by a post-empire little-man complex. Its more or less the same thing for France.

Having a great deal of French heritage, and a little Canadian (one of my ancestors was the first person to obtain a marriage license in Canada, and NO they weren't gay; if they had been, I wouldn't be around; duh), I feel that I am able to speak on this matter unabashedly. If we really wanted to cast aside all that is French in this country, we'd abandon our clothing. Think about it: France has set the fashion precedent for the majority of the world since the toga went out of style. France sucks, so let's all get naked. One big happy nude un-French country. Or maybe we could at least wear towels if we didn't want our joie de vivre to show.

"One big happy nude un-French country."

Count me in!

Ron...are you trying to give an argument against throwing out French influence? You should probably change your approach.

After all, I was asked by my session if I had a "nudist philosophy."

I was kidding! I don't have a nudist philosophy, either. I certainly don't plan on running around naked anytime soon, unlike our pals at Lobsters in a Bucket.

Oh groooooan Josiah.....

if I had a nickle...

but you're probably right, I'm not cultured enough to understand...

I actually really like Italy and Italians, too...being that I am one, esp. I know OF a lot of relatives that are still there, but I've never met them. My dad's half-brother went over one summer and got everyone's addresses.

As someone who spent the last semester in France, I can vouch for both the French soul and the difficulty of saying "courrier electronique" repeatedly. Hooray for "courriel" and all other words with fewer than four syllables.

Oh! Where in France were you?! I went to Aix-en-Provence...la plus jolie.. And when I was there it was still "l'email" and "l'interet" and "le weekend" (but I don't think le weekend will ever change, "fin de la semaine" is just too awk)

Les français, comme d'autres cultures, se pensent pour être supérieurs. (The French, like other cultures, believe themselves to be superior.) This is nothing new, it is the very same thing that the French and the rest of the world complain about concerning Americans. Everyone seems to think THEY are the best. If you dare to notice problems with a culture, why then you MUST be ethno-centric, culturally sheltered and in general just a stupid person. I hear this argument played out over and over again. No culture is the best. The French are snooty and Americans pompous. Jeannette get over your self-defense mechanism and realize that Josiah just says things to get people to react. I've never seen such an active blog commentary community than here, and I believe it is a direct result of Josiah's willingness to make statements that annoy people.

In related news, the French are not the only ones attempting to preserve their language from the effects of English. The Japanese government recently mandated that all official documents refrain from using English words that have Japanese counterparts. Hence words like "computer" and "email" are banned. A little different in that they aren't attempting to regulate culture, but still interesting that a similar effort is being pushed on the other side of the globe.

Also, here you can read specifically (in English) on a Japanese government site, their policy for promoting the Japanese language.

Finally, somebody understands. I love you Matt. But can you fault me from being willing to have fun with Jeanette if she's so willing to rise to the occasion?

And in conclusion, since this is my blog, I will delete any and all comments that become a discussion over the following three things:

a. Why France is Great
2. Where you where in France at one point or another
and d. If the comment is in French.

...we live on the most boring block in the whole United States.

I went to a party tonight at my manager's house. Quite the international crowd. I spent some time speaking with a woman from the Netherlands and a French man (who says he comes from about 80 miles south of Paris, but wouldn't tell me exactly where). Anyway, they both said they were surprised by my multi-culturalism. So There! To all you who think I'm just another dumb American. Nyah! Course he probably had a little too much to drink at that point... anyway he told me a funny joke. In France they say if you speak three languages you are trilingual, if you speak two languages you are bilingual and if you speak one language you are American. He knew it wasn't true but it was still funny.

Jeannette, {{CENSORED FOR BEING IN FRENCH}}. Read this quickly before Josiah deletes it.

Matt, I still think you're a dumb American.

Going "French" and thinking you've got culture I think is wimping out a bit. It's like saying you're a missionary to England or something.

Go live with Pakistanis, or the Japenese (like you have done Matt) there's some real cultural divides. The church I grew up in was half Pakistani and I remember all the crazy situations my Dad would get in trying to negotiate conflicts between the Pakistani's and old-coal mining town Pennsylvania folk. It was hilarious at times.

Oh, and thankfully French is a dying language.

Okay. I've re-thought my strategy. Forget the nudism. If we can't all abandon our french-influenced garments, then we can at least ditch terms like 'french inhale'. We could call it the 'freedom inhale'. Also, how about 'freedom kissing' as a more politically correct term. We could use Freedom's Mustard, too.

Isn't it funny how "french inhaling" is rather gross. Only the French would think it's suave and classy.

I have no idea how the "French" got to lable that particular style of kissing "French." I do like that it's become more ubiquitiously named "making out" these days. French kissing just sounds so 1950's passe.

The other thing that must be discussed is just how dang wierd the French are about sex. Any of you French fans out there, for a mild taste, go see "My Wife is an Actress." That'll hopefully put a dent into your romanticised Lifetime channel love of French culture.

Katie. I missed it sorry...