So it was obvious Rogers was cheating last night, prior to the 3rd inning. That was obviously pine tar. I noticed it before Fox noticed it though. I was watching him pitch and noticed he was really rubbing the ball in an odd way, and thought to myself, "Why is rubbing the ball so much..." Well then Joe Buck got the shot of his hand up and the rest was history. And its obviously pine tar, because dirt and chocolate cake is a joke, Todd Jones said it might be chocolate cake.
And photos from the ALCS show the Gambler with tar on his palm as well. So that explains how he's gotten his demons off his back. And even if you 'wash' it off the residue can still be on there, you'd pretty much need goo be gone to get it off. Which would then make your hands slipperly and you'd throw a good spit ball.
So he cheated, doesn't matter all that much, the cards got pitches to hit and didn't. Rolen did he's been amazing, like a pheonix rising out of arizona, he's proving his worth despite his fielding woes.
The reason Larussa didn't make a stink about Rogers? Two reasons, Leyland and Taveraz. He's probably cutting his buddy a break to be honest. The Larussa of last year would have had a heart attack if garner had tried this. The second reason is Taveraz did it in 2003, people wondered what was on his cap and why he grabbed the bill of his cap before every pitch... he was a sticky ball pitcher. And as soon as his trick was figured out, or at least as soon as someone finally complained he threw his hat into the stands at busch (to hide the evidence) and has since been an awful pitcher. So Larussa knowing his sinful past probably didn't want to punish his friend for something he allowed himself.
All in all its sad, but in a lot of ways a part of the game. Roids, growth hormones, sticky balls, scuffing, and spit balls have been part of the game since its beginning... well not the roids and hormones that's a new addition. I was impressed how the cards almost pulled it out in the 9th, granted i had fallen asleep by then. I just hope the cards ride the wave of home crowd and come back and win three in a row.
Posted by holtonian at October 23, 2006 02:35 PM | TrackBacknot EVERYone has cheated in baseball. but here's my story...
i was 12 (or 13).
a 6 foot who-knows-how-many inches was on first. i was playing second base.
he always steals, and we knew he would.
a pitch went past the catcher.
the really tall guy on first ran to second.
for some reason, the catcher decides to throw me the ball at second, even though the runner has been there for a few seconds.
i tell the runner it was a foul ball.
he starts to walk back to first.
i tag him.
he is out.
i am legend.
he is loser.
Posted by: daniel at October 23, 2006 03:38 PMWas Craig "Oh, My God HOW far did he HIT that?" Monroe cheating, too?
Posted by: Bill at October 23, 2006 03:56 PMPine tar is usually darker than that, though I noticed it early too. You also rub your hands like that when it's 30 degrees out.
All that being said, I was suspicious (and still am).
Still, it was just one inning (if you want to be accurate), and it's not like the Cards didn't suck for 7 of the other 8 innings Rogers pitched.
Posted by: Josiah at October 23, 2006 04:06 PMBIll, how them red sox doing btw? Also tell manny he's always got a place in st. louis if he wants a nice friendly place to play.
Roe, I know, that's why I, the cardinals, and basically every other fan isn't making a big stink. The cards had their chances, and lost the game on their own. The fact that Rogers used it in the ALCS though that's another issue and it will be interesting to see his second start... if he has one.
If you read www.stltoday.com all the sports writers seemed to be fine with the whole thing because the birds lost on their own.
I see you chose not to answer my actual question...
The Red Sox won the World Series in 2004. They beat your Cardinals in FOUR GAMES. The thrill from that will last me another two, three season, easy.
The Cardinals last won the World Series in 1982, when they were all coke addicts.
Even the Tigers have won the World Series since the Cards did last.
Good luck.
Posted by: Bill at October 23, 2006 04:39 PMBTW...
As someone who's used it, pine tar CAN be light in color. The darkness is directly proportionate to the amount you slap on. If you put it on your hand, and your hand sweats or your blow on your hand, the pine tar tends to liquify and wear off. It's also borderline as far as helping your pitches. Vaseline tends to be more effective. Not that I would, um, know directly.
Posted by: Bill at October 23, 2006 04:55 PMWow, Bill you're such a badass. Good thing there are people like you around to show everyone that not all Red Sox fans are classless tools. I love people who walk around with 3/4 wood for years after "their team" has their first touch success in over 100 years. That wasn't skill, your boys were defying the basic laws of statistics. So yeah Bill, the Cards haven't won since '82 (although I think you're thinking about the Mets with the coke head comments, you know the team that we traded Hernandez to after they realized he was a coke head and didn't want that as a part of their team) but then again what does history of great franchises mean anyway...well at least that's what I'd think if "my team" had one championship a century.
Btw, what a terrible start to the series. A 7-2 drubbing of Detroit’s ace by our #4 guy and a 3-1 squeaker…IN DETROIT! Wow, that’s a rough way to start a series. It sucks we only have our Cy Young award winner and the NLCS MVP left to the pitch the next two. If only I could understand baseball like a Red Sox fan...
I'm sorry for being at peace with the fact that my team is not in the playoffs. It is but a game, sir. And no, the Cards haven't played badly so far. But it doesn't really matter. I just don't like them. And you're not changing my mind.
My statement about still being happy about a two-year-old championship has to do with the fact that I don't have the short fuse that, say, Yankee fans do. Or most of my Red Sox fan brethren. It's cool with me if we're out this year. The way we played, we didn't deserve it. (For example, Josh Beckett sucks.) I actually started enjoying our losing this year. It brought to light the dumbassery (and chief dumbasses) in the Sox' front office. Particularly nice was former Sox Anibel Sanchez' no-hitter for Florida.
...and, yes, it was the Cards with all the coke -- though the Mets had their issues, too, in subsequent years. (Some were, you're right, directly connected.) I can name at least three cokeheads on the '82 team, though I won't here. I wouldn't want to be a classless tool.
Go baseball!
Posted by: Bill at October 23, 2006 06:24 PM"I wouldn't want to be a classless tool."
1. Too late.
"It is but a game, sir. And no, the Cards haven't played badly so far. But it doesn't really matter. I just don't like them. And you're not changing my mind."
2. Who's trying to change minds...I was simply making a point. See #1.
Some people know how to talk baseball, then there are Red Sox/Yankees fans. Once again see #1.
Posted by: Haze at October 23, 2006 06:36 PMChris, did you see Miklasz's take on dirtgate?
Here's a taste:
Like everyone else outside of the Tigers' dugout, I don't know the properties or the purpose of the mysterious substance slathered on Kenny Rogers' left thumb. But if Rogers thought he had to cheat to make the Cardinals fold in Game 2, then the secret goo must have covered up the scouting reports.
Lefthanders such as Mr. Rogers don't have to bend the rules to break the Cardinals down. Phil Mickelson defeats Tiger Woods more often than the Cardinals beat a lefty starter. Where the Cardinals are concerned, all left arms could be categorized as contraband.
Posted by: Haze at October 23, 2006 06:46 PMI did not inhale.
Posted by: Darryl Strawberry at October 23, 2006 07:35 PMYou have won the blog comments war! Whoo hoo!
I'm a classless tool.
I'm a classless tool.
I'm a classless tool.
Now I've called myself a classless tool three times, too.
Yay.
The Tigers are still gonna win. Or not. Whoo hoo!
Go baseball!
Posted by: bill at October 23, 2006 11:23 PMTwo things are irrelevant to the cheating issue: the fact that Rogers shut down the Cards for the rest of the game, and the fact that everyone else does it. Cheating is cheating. KR should have been ejected, he wasn't, and now we'll see who plays in game six. Hopefully, the Cards will clean up at Busch and there won't be a game 6.
Posted by: laura at October 24, 2006 07:53 AMI love it when two aquaintances/friends of mine sound like second graders.
Anyway, Bill, I think I sort of answered your question when I said the cardinals lost the game fair and square. They could have won it in the ninth or frankly any of the times Rogers pitched it down the middle, but they didn't.
I think the cardinals are good enough that if they get a lead they can hunker down and hold on till the end. The mets series proved the strength of their bull pen, except game 4 i believe when they got shalacked.
Rogers obviously was cheating in the first few innings but it didn't matter, his emotion was a better helper than the goo on his hands.
I think he got that Goo from elvis... see the movie clam bake and the song about the goo he's going to put on his boat for proof.
Posted by: holton at October 24, 2006 08:46 AMI just like to start trouble. :) It's actually been a great series.
If Rogers was cheating, it's gonna be hard to do anything about it because Major League Baseball has a "keep everything quiet, they'll eventually leave us alone" mentality towards cheating, and would have to admit they know about 100's of other cheaters, too, if they were to go after after Rogers.
Sad, really.
Posted by: Bill at October 24, 2006 09:09 AMI liked second grade. All the finger painting, chasing girls on the playground and GI Joe lunch boxes...man those were the days!
Me thinks you really haven't had any fun on blogs if you haven't been called a classless tool a time or two...or three.
Posted by: Haze at October 24, 2006 09:44 AM